Forum:Suggestions
I've realized that sometimes you might have suggestions regarding certain pages but you don't really want to write a section or edit something that is already there. This could be anything related to any MOM page or suggestion for a page that doesn't exist yet. Some things that are suggested may take some time while other things that are suggested may be able to be done immediately. Please check back because there may be questions for clarity. Thanks for visiting this Wiki. MysticX2 (talk) 11:05, April 14, 2013 (UTC) Race Pages If you have any background information about races, please post it here. MysticX2 (talk) 17:54, April 29, 2013 (UTC) :I threw in some minor edits for settlement placement. This varies a lot for different races so if anyone has insights to add to the race pages, I think this kind of information is important. Spearman D92-R (talk) 18:56, May 1, 2013 (UTC) ::Okay, so: Draconian and Lizardmen Settlers' primary use is establishing points of control early on islands you cannot reach without ships, so you can get to some valuable places earlier than your opponents. Note that Draconians have a nice tech tree and provide mana per population, so they're more benefical. DraconianSettlers can also fly, so they're faster and are good scouts. Dwarwen Settlers are always used in resource places. Groups of gems, silver, gold and areas with lots of mountains are nice. And where the crystals are present, especially CrysX, dwarwes are a must. A lone town with a little pop can yield more than a full-built city with all the mana buildings present. Dark Elven Settlers are mostly placed near Coal, Iron and Adamantium, since these are mostly troop-creators. This is also a good idea to set outposts at places with high pp cap, due to great amounts of power produced by each 1000 of the townsfolk. Troll Settlers should rarely be used - conquest is better for them. But placing your primary troop creation center will cheapen the construction cost, which is good for such a lowtech race as Trolls. Note that they can't even build Alchemist's Guild, so they will never be able to get magical, mythril or adamantium weapons. Beastmen Settlers are used just as usual, since they have a nice tech tree. Two notes should be taken, however: they produce power per pop, so you would want a place with high pop cap; they can create enginners, so you should build roads between their towns, perhaps, uniting enginners and settlers. Klackon Settlers are must for any empire with Klackon capital: due to special unrest, colonization becomes a primary growth way, so colonization rules are as usual. If your capital is not Klackon, then their settlers are useless pieces of junk for you, due to low tech and high unrest. High Men, Orcs and Nomad Settlers are placed as usual, except the benefit of Shores to their economical centers. High Elven Settlers are bad for business due to slow growth and not good enough tech, but, as with mana-pop productors, higher population cap locations should be chosen (beware the unrest though, but Rebels still produce the power). As for Gnolls and Halflings I fully agree with Spearman, but for Barbarians I should note the benefit of Shores (Warships, especially Flying and Invisible) and one special use: Barbarian Settlers are best used if you need to destroy some roads (how-to is written everywhere my Road Exploit intel is pasted). Did I forget something? Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 03:09, May 2, 2013 (UTC) :::Yes, I did: towns that can build oracles are good to place at borders of your empire. By the way, congrats on your lucky edit, Mind Stormy. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 05:30, May 2, 2013 (UTC) :::Thanks. Incidentally, if I have maximum choice in the matter, I prefer Dark Elves for most city sites and Trolls for my best military production center (assuming I'm running Death magic). Mind Stormy (talk) 07:19, May 2, 2013 (UTC) ::::That what I was talking about. You should only have one Troll city as the troop prod, to avoid getting low on cash. Dark Elves should be built anywhere if there is high pop cap. Dwarwes should be built as resource bases, and Draconians should be built by the Shores. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 13:55, May 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::Great ideas, thanks Spearman D92-R, Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (can I shorten that to Twilight or Princess?), and Mind Stormy. I'm counting on others to fix my errors! You should have lots of work. MysticX2 (talk) 12:54, May 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::I've gone ahead and edited several of the race-magic school synergy sections to point out genuine race-specific interactions rather than boilerplate that could apply to any race. This might not be possible for every single race-magic school pair, but it makes for more interesting reading when it is doable. Mind Stormy (talk) 10:26, May 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Thanks, I was hoping that it could be done...in fact I've left that realm section off of the Orcs page with the hope that one of you could add something. I couldn't think of anything, except the warship strategy. Any yes, I jumped a couple of races, but I have those almost ready. :D Thanks again, I appreciate all your work! MysticX2 (talk) 10:53, May 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Barbs and gnolls will need updating, then. Spearman D92-R (talk) 13:33, May 6, 2013 (UTC) :Yeah, those two were some of the last pages that Headrock did, but he had expressed some reservations about them, so yeah they should be updated to conform with the other race pages. Besides the charts and tables most of what I have done on the other pages is copy-and-pasted information and can be improved as needed. MysticX2 (talk) 09:57, May 7, 2013 (UTC) :: BTW thanks Twilight for that wall of text. It helps a lot to have a lot of the particulars right here and/or in the back of my head! Spearman D92-R (talk) 03:13, May 8, 2013 (UTC) :::Feel free to use any walls of text I post :) Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 12:34, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ::: I am not sure about elaborating so much on the combat stats of settlers. The pages all have a huge, extraneous write-up about how weak the settler units are, and no mention of their actual purpose. With Trolls I took the different angle of putting information on settlements in a subsection. If anyone has anything to add to it go ahead and write it in. I think the write-up on their combat capabilities could be condensed into 2-3 sentences. ::: –––Well hang on, it is unfair of me to say no mention, but I think 95% of their content should discuss where to plant cities. All the settler sections, including ones where I've added in particular notes, could be expanded, so have fun. Spearman D92-R (talk) 17:12, May 17, 2013 (UTC) ::::I like what you did with that, but I am torn between whether I like it better where you have it or if it would be better in the Citizen section. I probably did copy/paste too much about the settlers, and you have a good point about it being covered in depth on at least two other pages (at least one of which is where the info came from). I did most of my work on the race pages months ago, and I probably should have taken more time to review them before creating the page. That does leave LOTS of room for improvement edits! :D Keep up the good work! MysticX2 (talk) 01:35, May 18, 2013 (UTC) Trolls For some reason, when I pasted the info from my file into the page, spaces were added. It messed up some links and the appearance on the page, but I got a lot of them. It was odd because I used the same procedure as with the other races. Anyway, just a heads up on that. As with most other race pages, this needs intro information, background, and realm recommendations. MysticX2 (talk) 16:18, May 15, 2013 (UTC) The Trolls + Death realm recommendation writes itself... Pathfinding and Chaos Channels work nicely as well. Mind Stormy (talk) 17:23, May 15, 2013 (UTC) Oh yeah, Alchemy + Warlord is almost mandatory with them... Mind Stormy (talk) 17:27, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :Put in the background stuff I had. It also occurred to me at some point that retorts deserve a lot of attention in the realm interractions. Spearman D92-R (talk) 01:05, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::Regarding the mainline fighters, I'm confused about the negativity toward Troll Swordsmen. The difference between Troll Swordsmen and Troll Halberdiers is so small that it should almost always be better to build the former and use the saved resources to unlock War Trolls earlier; whereas the edge Troll Swordsmen have over Troll Spearmen is more significant. Mind Stormy (talk) 06:13, May 18, 2013 (UTC) :::You have a point, in my games using Trolls I have stuck with spearmen as long as possible, but I don't think I've ever built a troll halberdier. I'm not sure what you mean about all the negativity though, is that on the Troll page or the troll swordsman page? I did see one statement that should probably be changed on the Troll page. I think the troll swordsmen, like all others, have even better defense than halberdiers against ranged attacks...which is the main reason I build swordsmen. MysticX2 (talk) 11:59, May 18, 2013 (UTC) :::: I made some remarks about the spears being the most cost-effective of the three, since they have the essentials. I'm not sure how to respond, though, since I think we're both correct. Spearman D92-R (talk) 15:35, May 18, 2013 (UTC) Orcs Any suggestions for the Orc realm info or background information? MysticX2 (talk) 09:59, May 7, 2013 (UTC) :I can probably work on them soon. If you get the basic pages up and don't object, I can try to write more specific content. Anyone else can, too, if they want, but I sort of like doing that part. I take it headrock's philosophy on this was something like how people don't want to just see a skeletal page with little on it except (to use a current favorite word) boilerplate... but rather to see something fleshed out, specific, and hopefully interesting. Like when I made small writeups for the wizards, I tried to sort of advertise the wizard as a personality that could be interesting to play. I think you've made a fine start on orcs— like everyone says, they're normal. Very, very normal :D Spearman D92-R (talk) 03:04, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ::Yeah, I should have all those up in the next few days. There is one other, unrelated, page that I have worked on and I'll try to get that up as well. I am trying to get things rolling, but anything I have written will likely need improving! Keep up the good work! MysticX2 (talk) 09:36, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Halflings I'm trying to think of what to emphasize in the Realms section of the Halflings page. I'd rather mention things other than Slingers, but those are huge for the Halflings. Any suggestions? MysticX2 (talk) 19:33, April 17, 2013 (UTC) :Well, what are notable halflings' traits in MoM? Slingers, lowly units that have Lucky and thus can do more than their counterparts of other races, food production, little to none unrest modifiers. I think these should be mentioned. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 01:42, April 18, 2013 (UTC) ::Yeah, the eight figure units and food production were the two main things that I could think of.MysticX2 (talk) 17:53, April 18, 2013 (UTC) :::Before I go any further, what did you think of my change to the sorcery section? MysticX2 (talk) 15:43, April 20, 2013 (UTC) ::::Well, these are still common realm advices which are mostly unrelated to halfling's special traits. Surely you would expect any given blue book wielder to go for Time Stop, Suppress Magic (though this one's buggy), Sky Drake and such. In my opinion, only special race trait + magic realm trait interractions and combinations should be noted on race's page. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 02:18, April 21, 2013 (UTC) :::Doh! You're right! MysticX2 (talk) 21:09, April 21, 2013 (UTC) :::The only thing I come up with is Blur and Invisible to enhance the Halflings lucky trait. The thing is that while thinking about this, it seems that almost anything that can be said about one race will also apply to 8 or 10 other races. I'm thinking that may be why Headrock left the realms section off the Gnolls page.MysticX2 (talk) 09:26, April 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::Well, there are few sorcery interactions there, so that's justified a little. You could write something like "Lionheart, Holy Weapon and Crusade are good for boosting Slingers", "Making undead out of halflings is benefical due to Lucky trait (and Slingers' high upkeep), and you can use Dark Rituals more freely because of no unrest penalty of Halflings", "Chaos Channel is great to use on Slingers because of the free flight it provides (has a great use versus Great Wyrms and large hordes of ground enemy Slingers have trouble dealing with), and because chaos channeled Slingers will benefit from Chaos boost spells like Warp Reality", "Flight is great to cast on Slingers (explained above) and Phantom Warriors make a great meat shield for them if enemy has got ranged attackers". Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 13:01, April 22, 2013 (UTC) Thank you Spearman, another fine job!! MysticX2 (talk) 09:59, May 1, 2013 (UTC) :Thanks mate. Spearman D92-R (talk) 14:44, May 1, 2013 (UTC) High Elves Need background information and to write the realm info. MysticX2 (talk) 17:54, April 29, 2013 (UTC) :Thank you for the corrections Mind Stormy! MysticX2 (talk) 09:59, May 1, 2013 (UTC) ::Ah, by the way, forgot to mention in our discussion: Berserk spell benefit applies to Elven Lords just as it applies to Paladins. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 11:42, May 1, 2013 (UTC) :::Yeah, sorry, that was from the day I wasn't taking notes. :p I'll work it into the section, if someone else doesn't beforehand. MysticX2 (talk) 18:35, May 1, 2013 (UTC) High Men Need background information and improved realm information. Also, I'd like to know if you think the page looks better with the units listed under Force Composition indented as on the Halflings page or not indented as on the High Men page. MysticX2 (talk) 13:14, May 2, 2013 (UTC) :Not the full range of what we were discussing on realm interactions a day ago, but that probably is going to be added. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 13:57, May 2, 2013 (UTC) :For the magic school synergies section, I'd say High Men are one of the best pairings with Death since (i) they already get Holy Bonus 1 from Paladins, (ii) they already get Healing from Priests, (iii) they have Cathedrals to max out the Dark Rituals bonus, and the full suite of happiness boosting buildings to minimize the drawback, and (iv) Paladins are one of the best normal unit targets for Berserk (only Elven Lords seem better to me). Mind Stormy (talk) 14:19, May 2, 2013 (UTC) :Incidentally, I would *not* characterize High Men as the most "normal" race with no "great advantages". That distinction belongs to Orcs. Paladins are without a doubt an abnormally good "normal unit". Mind Stormy (talk) 11:59, May 3, 2013 (UTC) Crafting This section will be for discussing and suggestions for crafting, instead of using the talk for the create artifact and enchant item pages. MysticX2 (talk) 09:26, April 22, 2013 (UTC) Just noting some related pages that may be affected by crafting. Item Enchantments, Magical Item, Item Merchants. Categories On the Chaos Node page there is a misspelled category, my only option appears to be "Add" category. I tried undoing the changes before the error occurred, but you can only "undo" one edit. Am I missing something, maybe because I'm not editing in Visual Mode?! MysticX2 (talk) 09:03, May 6, 2013 (UTC) :Try to delete the category itself, I think Admin can do that. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 10:13, May 6, 2013 (UTC) ::No, tried that. :D MysticX2 (talk) 10:16, May 6, 2013 (UTC) ::I thought about deleting the Chaos Node page and reposting it, but that seems a bit ridiculous to get rid of a misspelled word! MysticX2 (talk) 10:19, May 6, 2013 (UTC) ::Ok, got it! Switched to visual, had to change preferences, and it gave me the option. MysticX2 (talk) 10:25, May 6, 2013 (UTC) ::The option was there in my regular edit mode, I just forgot about that little arrow! *shakes head* MysticX2 (talk) 10:30, May 6, 2013 (UTC) Spell Books The following is a suggestion from SpreadSheetNinja. I found that this information is already on the wiki! Page Spell Rarity contains this information. Is there somewhere else that this should be included? MysticX2 (talk) 08:40, May 6, 2013 (UTC) Hmm, looks like we will need to rework the spacing to keep it from overlapping. MysticX2 (talk) 09:07, April 25, 2013 (UTC) It seems that this type of information would be included in the spellbook page, but I haven't really focused on that recently. The first thing that comes to mind is that it relates mostly to starting a new game and also maybe retorts and wizards. I'll try to do an outline, but in the meantime...any other suggestions for the spellbook page? MysticX2 (talk) 10:31, April 28, 2013 (UTC) Realm Pages A sneak peek on not-coming-soon Realm pages. Would be nice to discuss the possible structures of these. Personally, I think that general realm specialization should be described, then some basic strategy given. Realm+Realm combinations should be included (as advanced strategies). List of Realm spells should be either merged with Realm page or copied into it in some way. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 10:34, May 7, 2013 (UTC) :While I don't have a clear picture of these pages at the moment, I'd love to see what your thoughts are. I don't know about merging or moving the list of spells...although that is likely going to be the end result. For one thing I think that the spells that appear on the main page are chosen from that list, which would mean that it would need to remain in any case, but the spells will probably also need to appear on the realm pages. Talking strategies could take so many directions, did you have an example in mind? Anyone else have ideas about these pages? MysticX2 (talk) 10:59, May 7, 2013 (UTC) ::Well, we can keep Spell List pages for the needs of main page, but redirect to Realm pages, where that list will be placed, if the pages are to be merged. About strategies: basic strategy is based on Realm's description, common things like "Life is good if you rely on normal units". Advanced strategy includes any special realm advices, 11 book strategies and combos with spells from other realms, as well as Realm+Retort combos. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 09:14, May 8, 2013 (UTC) :::Yeah, 11 book strategies are a good idea. I don't mean to suggest that any of the other things you mention here are bad or not a good idea, just that 11 book strategies are a definite. You almost have to have a list of the spells on the main realm page. Unlike Headrock, I can't pump out two complete pages or more a day (even if I spent all my time writing). Right now I'm trying to figure out the things that need to be done and in what order. I redirected some pages, like Orc to Orcs, and that has cut down on the list of pages needed. Some pages can be redirected once another page is written, but in the meantime they will stay on the list. Anyway, more good ideas...keep them coming! MysticX2 (talk) 09:28, May 8, 2013 (UTC) ::::Well, I think that you guys should finish with release candidate Race pages drafts, so we get to polishing them. Once polishing is done, we could get to Realms. Roads page will be created as well, by the way, as soon as Spearman will switch his attention off the Race pages. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 12:31, May 8, 2013 (UTC) :::::lol, Patience young one, we will get there. Remember most of this is done in "spare" time. I'd like to be done with it too, but every time I start one I find some little changes that have to be made. Keep the ideas coming and we might catch up with you before too long. :D MysticX2 (talk) 18:15, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Problems If you find anything that is not right on our wiki, post a note about it here, in that section. Personally, I did just found a plenty of old pages which include some wrong statements or just don't note important aspects of their subject. There can be more, so, if you feel like it, check any old page you come across. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 15:09, May 9, 2013 (UTC) :These are Non-Corporeal, where it is said that you should move NC unit out of stack before travelling via Enchanted Road (this advice is complete nonsence), Cracks Call, where it is said that this spell targets unit (while it targets a combat tile in fact), and it is not noted that Cracks Call destroys walls, Crusade, where a few things are not noted (see comments on Crusade page), Web, where it is not noted that dispelling the target allows it to fly again (you can even dispel it after web has been destroyed). By the way, we also don't have any note on Sailing movement type - only Swimming, which is used instead of Sailing (Swimming/Walking is used on Wiki when actual Swimming movement type is meant). Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 12:51, May 10, 2013 (UTC) ::It's never explicitly mentioned that Forester + Mountaineer = Pathfinding — any pages making mention of these abilities should be updated. Spearman D92-R (talk) 13:56, May 10, 2013 (UTC) :::Actually it is mentioned on the Forester page and on the Mountaineer page, I think I made that update after it was pointed out in a talk message. I don't know that it needs to be mentioned on either the Pathfinding page or the Path Finding page because that is discussing the ability and the enchantment...but there may be a section where it should be added. MysticX2 (talk) 00:46, May 11, 2013 (UTC) :::Ok, Pathfinding does have a group movement section, so it should probably be added there. MysticX2 (talk) 00:53, May 11, 2013 (UTC) It's really nice to see my advice has been taken into account, as many old pages are getting edits and discussions, but what about pages I mentioned? I don't think I can write it good enough. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 02:17, May 19, 2013 (UTC) : One thing to bear in mind is that the guy who founded and wrote most of the content on this wiki said he preferred existing pages to be as complete as possible before new ones were created. For my part, I'd like to try to follow his guidelines even in his absence so that if/when he does return (I'm guessing he will— people just need breaks), he doesn't get the impression that things have deteriorated. I know that MysticX has spent literally months just fine-tuning the existing pages prior to putting up the race page drafts, and I think he was mainly going ahead with them because a format was already submitted by Headrock with Barbarians and Gnolls. I'll definitely help you with roads because you're intent on it, but please don't get too impatient with us fuddy-duddies just yet. Spearman D92-R (talk) 15:11, May 19, 2013 (UTC) ::No, roads can wait, of course. I'm talking about mistakes, incorrect statements on NC, Cracks Call and/or Enchant Roads pages, and lack of important information on Crusade, Cracks Call and Web pages. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 16:12, May 19, 2013 (UTC) :::Yeah, I think that was mostly information that Twilight had shared with me in chat or that I indicated I would look into it...and I haven't made any significant edits since I finished posting the info I had for the race pages. I saw this earlier today, but didn't read it...so my fault, sorry. MysticX2 (talk) 00:58, May 20, 2013 (UTC) Swimming Yeah, that one might have been better as "water" movement, but I think that sailing would still fit in that category. If others think that I should change what that is called, I'll see if I can change it. Would that be better? MysticX2 (talk) 11:51, May 12, 2013 (UTC) :In the game, right click the unit's movement type. That'll bring the list of all possible movement types. I bet that either each one of them should have it's own page, or there should be one page for all movement types, a section for each, so any page mentioning a specific movement type will link to a corresponding section on that page. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 11:57, May 12, 2013 (UTC) Ok, there is a huge number of links to Movement Allowance which seem to be directed from every type of movement. At the same time all movement types have a page except for Sailing as you pointed out. Apparently that type has been avoided entirely, but as you indicated it should probably have its own page. There is an unwritten page for Ships in the wanted list, so that will possibly be where the link should come from. For now, keep this listed so it isn't forgotten. MysticX2 (talk) 12:31, May 12, 2013 (UTC) Also, the movement shown for the Movement Allowance of a ship is the same as shown for other water movement units.MysticX2 (talk) 12:37, May 12, 2013 (UTC) :Not the same. Take a look not on the ship's stats, but select the ship overland for movement, and look at ship stack's movement type, near the stack's movement allowance. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 12:45, May 12, 2013 (UTC) Unrest I've been using Headrock's chart from the Fortress page for the unrest tables, but we have another chart that is different on the Races page (which needs a lot of rewriting). The thing about the one on the Races page is that it is copyrighted and there is no indication from the person that posted it of permission to use the chart. There are some differences, and the one Headrock posted has the statement that changes might be needed. Thoughts or suggestions? MysticX2 (talk) 11:51, May 12, 2013 (UTC) I seem to have lost my connection for a few minutes! The statement on his page is that it is "possibly copyrighted by someone named..." For now I'll leave it for that reason, but I'll check into it further. MysticX2 (talk) 12:18, May 12, 2013 (UTC) Finding pages While the wiki for the most part is well organized, there have been a few instances when finding a page could have been easier and could have prevented problems. For example, the first time I looked for an unrest table, I first thought there wasn't one and then I stumbled onto it on the fortress page. Another example, the chart suggestion above...I was surprised that it wasn't on the wiki only to stumble onto it a week later on the Spell Rarity page. Thoughts or suggestions? MysticX2 (talk) 11:51, May 12, 2013 (UTC) Information needs to be linked better in a ton of cases, and it has to be done intuitively by people actively searching for information. I think my first edit here was to submit a road construction chart to the engineers page, only to find that the information was located elsewhere, on the construction page. Now that I think on it, that was a HUGE shortcoming. The engineers page had 1 link to Construction, but there was no indication in the context of that link (which was just in the infobox) that it contained all the wiki's current information relevant to road building. Just for example. Spearman D92-R (talk) 22:38, May 12, 2013 (UTC)